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[RELEASED] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
http://forum.rallyesim.fr/viewtopic.php?f=444&t=3949		 Page 1 sur 4
Auteur:  KiarDon [ Jeu 28 Jan 2010 00:51 ]
Sujet du message:  [RELEASED] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
EDIT 30.5.2010: Beta version released, you can download it here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SIW8HTWX

EDIT 26.8.2010: Physics 100% ready, you can download final car here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XBHGXOSE Includes also Escort Mk1 and BMW M3 e30.

Hi! Im finnish guy working on real-wheel-drive Ford Escort RS Cosworth based on eddy3spain:s grN Escort:s model and real rallycar driven by a finnish rallydriver in group H. Physics are nearly ready, I think they will be totally ready in a month. I can promise the physics will be as good and realistic as the legendary volvo's physics.

The real car have only been raced on gravel and snow but that's not a problem because I have done physics mostly without real car measurements. My goal is just to make car to handle like real car!

Some basic info about the car:

-RWD (the choice of "real drivers" :D)
-Weight: 1150kg
-Engine: 2.1 l original DOHC Cosworth engine without turbo
-265hp/7800rpm
-270nm/6000rpm

Althought i have considered the power loss of transmisson and differential when making engine curves I think I have to decrease the engine output a bit cause I don't want to make too outstanding car. Lets see what my test drivers will think about the final version of the car, compared to volvo and others..

BUT my real problem with project is that I don't have enough knowledge of models! And that's why Im asking your help. Anyone who can do basic things with models could help a lot. At least, suspension parts must be moved to right places in model. Now front parts are at rear and rear parts at front and so on, because of rwd-physics on model of 4WD car. Also it would be nice (but not must to do) to do few little modifications to model (new rims and "wrc"-spoiler) to make it look more like the real car. Anyone please send me pm if you want to help me with the model!

There are some pictures of car, just showing the new skin that I am making. (nearly ready, just few corrections needed..)

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9500/esko1.png
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/383/esko4.png

and the real car: http://www.winhunters.fi/kuvia.htm (and im not meaning that Cortina  :-D , btw nice car too, they drive it in History group races)

I'm going to make some preview-video from the car when physics are in final form.
Auteur:  Flat-twin [ Jeu 28 Jan 2010 01:25 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
Hi, nice to see that you continued to work on that project (I saw it on BHMS a long time ago).
I'm working on Alpine A310 physics based on the volvo but with a lot of modifications. I think one important point (and sadly too empiric) is to modifiy the dummys data in r_XXXX files to have values that reflect the reality of the game (what you see in external view in game) in the setups (the calculated values of camber and else when you change the values for wheel axis inclination and the others). It does not change the behavior of the car at all but simplifies the setups in game. Did you check that ?
Auteur:  toto090369 [ Jeu 28 Jan 2010 04:05 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
Si j'ai bien tout compris il s'agit d'une escort propulsion non? si c'est le cas,  ce serait intéressant de voir si ses physics seraient compatibles avec la Ford Escort Rs MK2 que nous prépare Thib25?
Auteur:  Flat-twin [ Jeu 28 Jan 2010 10:07 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
Je ne pense pas car l'empattement et les voies ne sont pas les mêmes. Par contre faut voir si le comportement en change pas trop si on les adapte à la taille de la future escort MK2, ensuite il faudra aussi y mettre un moteur qui correspond mais c'est jouable.
Auteur:  KiarDon [ Jeu 28 Jan 2010 12:50 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
Flat-twin a écrit:
Hi, nice to see that you continued to work on that project (I saw it on BHMS a long time ago).
I'm working on Alpine A310 physics based on the volvo but with a lot of modifications. I think one important point (and sadly too empiric) is to modifiy the dummys data in r_XXXX files to have values that reflect the reality of the game (what you see in external view in game) in the setups (the calculated values of camber and else when you change the values for wheel axis inclination and the others). It does not change the behavior of the car at all but simplifies the setups in game. Did you check that ?


In fact I abandonned the project once in 2008 because I had'nt enough knowledge of physics and I also started my military service at beginning of 2009 so i wouldn't even have the time to work on the car. I continued to work on car again about 2 months ago and in that time I've done 5x better than in 2008! Now I have good knowledge of physics and how they work in real cars. In fact the most helpful has been one image I found from some japanese (?) rbr-site: I uploaded it here: http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9246/macphersonstrut.png the picture shows quite well how the geometries work in rbr.  :)

Im sorry I did'nt totally get what you  mean about these dummy things but I think you just mean the geometries of suspension and wheels. Yes, I have them in condition. Of course the values in for example r_tarmac and tarmac files have to be same if you want to make it work like it should. The most difficult thing is to make geometries work like in real life: the bump steer, change of camber when suspension moves in and out and so on. Front geometries work like a dream now, im currently testing few variations of rear end. In real life escort have individual suspension in rear but in my tests the variation of solid rear axle (kind of volvo's) seems to work better in rwd car in rbr.. I will do few more tests and then do the choice about the real axle. But I favor the car's behavior before using the measurements of real car so the choice may be quite clear..  :roll:

I don't speak french, im sorry, but I tried to use google translater to translate other posts.. So was toto090369 asking something about using these physics in MK2 Escort?? Of course if I will work on that car in future I will use Cosworth's physics as base to the project but not the same physics as final version. For example the MK2 has different wheelbase and weight and it's from 70's and Cosworth from 90's so they really aren't the same car so behavior of car must be quite different. In fact I started my Cosworth physics from volvo's but now there haven't been even the one common measurement in volvo and escort physics for a month..  :-D But I must say that RTS have made few very good inventions to rwd-physics when making volvo and without researching the volvo's physics I wouln't ever be able to do good rwd physics!
Auteur:  Flat-twin [ Jeu 28 Jan 2010 13:02 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
I was talking about the suspension geometry dummys. In fact if they are the same, the calculated values in RBR doesn't represent what you see in the game. For example look at the volvo. You have (especially for the rear axle i think) very bigs values which have no sense. if you change the values in the dummys data in r_XX files, you can adjust that to match what you see in game. I made a few tests for the alpine but it's a long process. However it works fine. It's one of my remaining points on the Alpine and it's long because you have to change the value, see if it looks not weird and so on... But I think it's worth it !

What toto was saying is exactly what you understood : being able to adapt your Cossie physics on the future RS MK2 converted from Dirt by Thib25 (in progress). And I answered about the same thing that you explained above :D
Auteur:  72gears [ Jeu 28 Jan 2010 17:28 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
Great Keep it up

Edit : insnt this Group F car? Not H
Auteur:  KiarDon [ Jeu 28 Jan 2010 21:08 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
Flat-twin a écrit:
I was talking about the suspension geometry dummys. In fact if they are the same, the calculated values in RBR doesn't represent what you see in the game. For example look at the volvo. You have (especially for the rear axle i think) very bigs values which have no sense. if you change the values in the dummys data in r_XX files, you can adjust that to match what you see in game. I made a few tests for the alpine but it's a long process. However it works fine. It's one of my remaining points on the Alpine and it's long because you have to change the value, see if it looks not weird and so on... But I think it's worth it !


If I did totally get what you are saying that means me lot more work with the car!  :shock:
So you mean that althougt the values are same in r_tarmac and tarmac the values calculated by rbr aren't the same than what you see in the game? I have never noticed that kind of problem.  :-? Volvo has the very big values in rear because RTS invented that way to simulate solid-rear axle which is not available in rbr physics normally. As you see in physics the wishbone sign is turned around so if volvo would have the normal suspension parts in model instead of that solid rear axle you could see that wishbone and other parts of right wheel start about from where left tyre's parts shoud start and the other way round. The wishbone and steering rod of rear wheels start from other side of the car and are very long because of that. Anyways Im a little sceptical about what you are saying by now but it could be true: I have to check out those things quickly!

72gears: eikö ruotsin H ole aikalailla sama kuin suomessa F ? Olen siksi puhunut H:sta kun ulkomaalaiset yhdistää sen paremmin takavetosiin turbottomiin vähän vanhempiin autoihin, niistä kun kukaan ei tiedä mistään F:stä..
Auteur:  72gears [ Ven 29 Jan 2010 14:37 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
Juu onhan se kyllä totta.
Auteur:  hunter_z [ Dim 31 Jan 2010 18:20 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
Bonne idée de cette voiture dans la spécification de H ont une nouvelle physique pour cela? 4x4 version aussi viendrait dans maniable H
Je suggère que la spécification RallyCross  ;-)
Auteur:  KiarDon [ Lun 1 Fév 2010 22:18 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
hunter_z a écrit:
Bonne idée de cette voiture dans la spécification de H ont une nouvelle physique pour cela? 4x4 version aussi viendrait dans maniable H
Je suggère que la spécification RallyCross  ;-)


Please could you use english in this topic.  :)  I don't undestand french and google translator isnt good enough everytime.

About the progression of car: There is still as much to do than before but what I've done in few days have made the car's behaviour better and that's what is the most important thing of course. Tarmac is the most difficult because even the car is good on gravel and snow it's not always good on tarmac! But when it's good on tarmac it's very easy to make it good on gravel and snow too. Anyways it's coming better and better all the time and there is not so much to do after all. Btw the rear suspension will be individual like in the real car, there is no need to use solid axle that volvo's got. I started to do it based on the original GrN escort's rear susp and with few modifications it feels very good now!
Auteur:  hunter_z [ Mer 3 Fév 2010 20:41 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
Good idea for this car in the specification H is a new Physics for this? 4x4 version is also a useful H
I believe that the specification RallyCross it should arise.  ;-)
Auteur:  KiarDon [ Jeu 4 Fév 2010 00:19 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
hunter_z a écrit:
Good idea for this car in the specification H is a new Physics for this? 4x4 version is also a useful H
I believe that the specification RallyCross it should arise.  ;-)


You're right! Now I have very much common between original 4x4 grN and my grH physics and that seems to be working very well. Of course I have had to make lot's of modifications to make rwd-version's behaviour like wanted even though the car is basicly same than the 4wd version. What are you meaning with that RallyCross version? 4wd with more power or rwd? Rwd with +300hp could be nice and "only-for-real-drivers" car but also too unbeaten so it wouldn't be driven in same class with volvo and others.  :-D

Mostly it's been just testing and trying the things how they affect to car and I've tried many versions of physics based on Volvo, original escort and rbr physics creator but everytime it has ended to not good enough result.  :roll:  But now I am very confident with the car and I know I can make the physics ready in a month! I will try to make some preview-video in a week from now..  :)
Auteur:  KiarDon [ Lun 1 Mar 2010 23:19 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
Physics 99% ready! Only few little things to do. Now I am looking for beta testers to have feedback for the car before final physics! PM me if interested and I can send you the car! You don't have to be real "Tommi Hirvelä of rwd-cars" but you must have some experience with volvo or other rwd-cars on rbr of course.  :)

Im sorry I haven't made that preview video for now, I can't get the sound recorded from the game.  :( A friend of mine may do it, let's see..

Next thing is to edit model. I haven't any knowledge of them so should I start with zmodeler or 3dmax or what??? Im just going to do few modifications to the entire model..
Auteur:  72gears [ Mar 2 Mar 2010 15:30 ]
Sujet du message:  Re: [WIP] Ford Escort Cosworth grH RWD
tuleeko tää auto cz pluginille? :-s
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